The Transformation Episode

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Hr. Confessions. I’m your host, Christine Mccann Flynn, and I’m also CEO and co-founder of Skill cycle. We build the bridge between performance and making it actionable with actual learning that ties to people’s goals and their roles and the feedback that they’re receiving. I’m here with an amazing guest. Lori, who’s also a skill cycle client. But what I love most about Lori is her expertise, and across a different variety of areas from

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Kristy McCann Flynn: enterprise all the way to startups. And so we’re going to be diving in to talk a little about a little bit about Laurie’s journey, and how you could apply a lot of things that she has done in the past, in the present, and what she’s building in the future, and go from there. So, Laurie, please introduce yourself.

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Laurie Shakur: Christy. Thank you. I am so excited to be here, but I think you did a great job when you said that. I’ve worked in different organizations, different cultures. I’m a seasoned Hr. Practitioner, and I like to define my body of work as introducing a new generation to modern Hr.

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Laurie Shakur: And so I can’t wait to dive into our conversation.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Awesome. So, Laurie, when you first start out Hr. Because, you know, like me was probably a little bit ago. Not that’s completely there so. But how much is Hr. Changed? And what are the things that you’ve essentially kind of thrown to decide? And one of the things that you think are the most important imperatives for Hr. Professionals and leaders to work on.

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Laurie Shakur: Oh, wow! Christy! Fundamentally, this is not the field that I joined decades ago. From the name

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Laurie Shakur: I actually, although I still use the term Hr. Or human resources I love, and I’m much more closely aligned with the people function. When I started my career we were personnel, and it was purely administrative. And so the biggest transformation I’ve seen is going from the silent behind the scenes, and the emphasis was just to get benefits and

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Laurie Shakur: compensation out to the middle phase I would describe as Hr. Practitioners, having much more clarity in their contribution, and seeking a seat at the table

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Laurie Shakur: to where I believe we are now, which is not just having a seat, but a voice, and if done correctly, driving. So not just a seat, but actually driving and driving a number of things, driving the culture, driving business outcomes and the measurement of them.

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Laurie Shakur: and most importantly, driving the well-being and the growth and development of employees.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Yeah, same thing way back when it was called personnel. But.

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Laurie Shakur: That’s been that.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Yeah, I know. But it’s been a major transformation, because I saw within every single role that we were making the steps in the evolution to really not be that bridge between the organization and the employees, and and what needs to work in order to get to the productivity of not just the organization, but how you

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Kristy McCann Flynn: bring the employees with it. And so it. You know, my 20 year career. It was a lot of change and a lot of transition, and I do think that we’re on the cost for something, you know, very special. But it’s more about arming. You know, the Hr professionals of today. You know, I mean as to how to really have that strategic mindset. So within your career, how have you chosen to do things? And why? And, most importantly, how have you connected to the to the business and be able to get the outcomes that you’re looking for.

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Laurie Shakur: That’s a great question, Christy. So I think the most

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Laurie Shakur: strategic and impactful Hr practitioners understand the business, the industry that they’re in. And so I

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Laurie Shakur: I’m new to a startup and the tech industry. I mean, I’ve worked for big companies. But this is my first. And so what I found most impactful, and what I recommend to Hr. Practitioners is first and foremost, understand the business and the industry by understanding the business. You can then gauge what the people practice should look like. So what processes, programs, structures, policies should support the enablement of the company being successful in that particular industry.

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Laurie Shakur: And so, for example. Now, I work for a wonderful startup that’s

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Laurie Shakur: focusing on AI and machine learning. And that can be scary for a lot of people. So I’m really delving in deep to better understand how AI will enable, so that I can help remove the fear.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Right. And when you say you know AI enables is is this something you know, as far as being embraced within your organization, and how you sell outside like, how’s the overall feeling? Especially within the people operation functions? As to how you are all embracing AI in certain ways, or maybe not so.

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Laurie Shakur: Good question. So it’s a combination. As a company we obviously embrace, but as a function not so much. And so. One

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Laurie Shakur: good example is, I see, a lot of opportunity for AI enabled recruitment processes and selection processes, and I’m really resistant. I tended a great conversation a couple of weeks ago. And there’s a lot of guardrails that are still not implemented and existing. And so I’m concerned about the bias.

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Laurie Shakur: And so I’m moving a little slowly, while Chat Gbt is my best friend. I am not leveraging the AI functionality for Hr. But I know it’s coming.

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Laurie Shakur: I am beginning to immerse myself and learn more, so that I can ask intelligent questions.

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Laurie Shakur: Because if it’s a when, when will I have to transform my organization and leverage some of those great automations. And I wanna make sure I’m the most informed and knowledgeable. So I can make those good decisions.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Yeah, no, I was the same way. I’ll I’ll never forget, you know before, like one of my last roles before I started skill cycle, I enabled, you know, AI within the greeting function. And I it

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Kristy McCann Flynn: like it was like one of those, you know, months from Wow. This is going really well, like, you know, I mean, my recruiters. Inboxes aren’t being completely in dated, you know. I mean, we seem to have really good candidates. Well.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: 3 months in. You see you. You see, the candidates come in.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: They all look the same. They all dress the same.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: They all thought the same, and you know, when I really start the peel back the layers, I was just like, okay. So

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Kristy McCann Flynn: the the candidate profiles essentially being built off of the actual manager profile, and you know the managers free, you know, being a lot of you know young white men, you know, in sales with a certain dynamic A. As to, you know, and personality, that’s what is gearing towards. And it was one of those things that we had to pull back, because it’s

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Kristy McCann Flynn: I think the big thing. AI can be such a time saver. But it’s about having the mature data sets

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Kristy McCann Flynn: in order for it to really make the intelligent decisions. I always get hung up on like, you know. A. I could tell you everything, will AI still warning, too. And it’s a hypothesis until it’s actually working with the right data sets to really make something more concrete. And so I I do think that that’s the caveat within Hr. A lot of times. It’s like, how strong are those data sets that we’re able to pull, to make it make work more efficient, more easy. But to make sure that

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Kristy McCann Flynn: we’re not letting that bias, then.

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Laurie Shakur: I agree wholeheartedly. And it’s I love what you said, the data set. And it’s the programming.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Yep.

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Laurie Shakur: So to the degree that the companies recognize the need to have inclusive developers.

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Laurie Shakur: We’re gonna keep getting what we’re getting. I love that Europe is ahead of it. No surprise there. I think that they are the first

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Laurie Shakur: to have some guardrails required. If there is going to be any AI enabled technology rolled out. I think China, also going down the same path and recognizing that there’s gotta be programming and structure which is much more inclusive than what we’ve normally had to do.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Yeah, we’ll see here. So, Laurie, tell me a story just because you have a ton of experience I completely gravitated for. And I would really like to learn if you’re okay with that, you know what has been some of the biggest hurdles that that you’ve been able to cross, being an Hr. Practitioner, and where before and where have you succeeded? And why? Because I think that that is really important, especially for

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Kristy McCann Flynn: season. People like us, for a lot of the Hr practitioners out there. It’s you know, it’s nervous to fail. And and what do you do? And and it’s about having that knowledge. So tell us a little bit more about you and your history, because I think, find it to be amazing.

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Laurie Shakur: Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, so you’re so kind.

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Laurie Shakur: I think when I think of my evolution and growth, it’s been around leadership. So I had to learn that it’s more than the processes. And it really is the connection with people. So while it seems like, I’m really friendly, I’m an introvert. And so it’s hard for me to make those connections, naturally. But I realized at some point, and it wasn’t early in my career was midpoint, that connection, connectivity and really

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Laurie Shakur: resonating with others is key to anyone’s success.

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Laurie Shakur: And so I’ll give you a a a quick example in every role I go in historically, and I would have a sense of pride around the implementation of particular programs, projects and procedures. That was what I led with. I’m a builder.

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Laurie Shakur: and and that’s how I would present myself in every interview and full transparency as I shared. This is my first time working in a startup. And so, when I met with my now boss, the CEO

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Laurie Shakur: I didn’t lead with that

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Laurie Shakur: I’ll never forget. She asked me, and and so let me just back up. She’s an amazing woman. This is the third time she started a company. Mit Stanford just brilliant. She’s just fierce. And so first time meeting her on Zoom.

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Laurie Shakur: and she asks me to tell me

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Laurie Shakur: first tell me your story.

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Laurie Shakur: And so, as I mentioned, I would typically just go down my Linkedin and just read off what I did and maybe throw a little bit in.

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Laurie Shakur: And for the first time in my professional career I said, You know what I’m gonna tell her my story

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Laurie Shakur: now it wasn’t planned. I I don’t know exactly what

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Laurie Shakur: I shared, but I recall sharing. I’ve got grit. I’m from the south side of Chicago. I remember sharing that I was primarily a single mom, and I raised my daughters, and I was very proud of that

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Laurie Shakur: and a few other just personal things, and at the conclusion of my 3 to 5 min monologue I’ll never forget Deb. Johnny

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Laurie Shakur: did this and said, I’ve heard enough, and I thought, oh, crap!

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Laurie Shakur: I blew it.

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Laurie Shakur: and she said, I’d like to invite you

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Laurie Shakur: to the process. I’d like you to meet our chief revenue officer and the rest of the executive team, and 2 weeks later she gave me an offer.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Wow!

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Laurie Shakur: I have never

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Laurie Shakur: found myself, and it couldn’t be just a culminating of post pandemic, because I think we’re all different humans now, if we allow ourselves to be, or it could just be the phase and stage that I’m in. But I now recognize that as an Hr. Practitioner and or a leader. We’ve gotta be unapologetically authentic and who we are. I wore a mask for decades, Christy. I did. I showed up because I thought

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Laurie Shakur: I showed up in a way that I thought they wanted me to show up, and I held back a part of my authenticity for a number of reasons. Fear you name it.

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Laurie Shakur: But for the first time in my career I unapologetically show up each and every day who I am, and I’m so blessed and lucky that if I don’t.

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Laurie Shakur: I’ve got a boss and a group of colleagues around me that if they see it they notice it, and they call me on it.

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Laurie Shakur: So we all unapologetically authentic here and there’s something refreshing. And so, in summary to close out your specific question, what have I learned? I’ve learned that

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Laurie Shakur: each and every one of us has, and this is gonna sound kind of woo woo, but a divine assignment. If we’re here, we’re supposed to be here, if we’re contributing, and if we genuinely have a desire to make a meaningful impact, then we’re here and we’re here together at the right time.

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Laurie Shakur: And so what’s required with that is to bring all of yourself. And so, as Hr. Practitioners, we first and foremost have to do that so that we can level up the organization and create safety so that everyone else can do the same thing.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Wow! I love that one. Thank you for sharing that, but

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Kristy McCann Flynn: it’s I’ll never forget the minute that I just showed me.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: and

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Kristy McCann Flynn: it took some time right

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Kristy McCann Flynn: now. They would see edges of me. You know, because I’m I’m very outspoken, even though I’m secretly an introverted, too. But I’ve always become very outspoken when I feel that people are not being treated the right way right? Th. There’s always a goal as to how you do it right and.

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Laurie Shakur: Yes. Yeah.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Doesn’t need to be a blood bath in order to get that get to a goal. And so, you know, when I really started to show up more authentic.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: I was able to get a lot more stuff done. I feel like, because

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Kristy McCann Flynn: to your point, really understanding the business.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: but really being business oriented and really going in more as an operator rather than you know, a human resource, and really as an operator, making sure that I was connecting what we need to do. You know, I mean to connect the people to get the outcomes that everybody was looking for, and being very unapologetic about it. It was more

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Kristy McCann Flynn: about. This is not a not, this is a need to have if we’re going. Yc, and when I really start to, you know, similar you

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Kristy McCann Flynn: so who I really was, and and you know, in the Hr capacity, but even more beyond the Hr capacity of really in that operator position and being unapologetic about it. That’s when things really start to move. And I do think, unfortunately, there is a lot of that fear factor

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Kristy McCann Flynn: within Hr. Because, like some may have the seat and they don’t want to lose it. Some are just dying to get into it. Some don’t know where to start, because, you know, they’re walking into cultures that have transformed in so many different ways. And so I think it’s all always about peeling back the layers of the onion. As to if you start with your core.

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Laurie Shakur: Naming.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Find the core of the organization and start to really peel. You know, I mean the necessary things that we need do and why that’s going to be able to move it forward. And a lot of times simple is best.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: And and and I found that so I appreciate you telling that story that just resonated so much with me in in my journey, too. So, Laura, talk to me about some of the things that like, you know. I mean, you’re passionate about inside and outside of Hr. And and how you kind of mold them together to be this Lori that’s unapologetic that is able to get a lot of great stuff done, you know, for the organization. Tell us more. I’m very intrigued.

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Laurie Shakur: So I I like beginning with the personal. So we talked about, you know, transformation. So

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Laurie Shakur: pandemic was transformational for me.

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Laurie Shakur: I was travelling too much.

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Laurie Shakur: not exercising, not healthy, no different than so many others. And so in that moment of quiet

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Laurie Shakur: I really get quiet. And I began implementing

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Laurie Shakur: transcendental meditation.

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Laurie Shakur: so I know this has nothing to do with Hr. But for me it has everything to do with Hr. Because when I began to get still in quiet. I got more creativity. I got more clarity. And so that was the beginning. I’ve always practice. Well, I shouldn’t say always I’ve always been healthier, so exercise has always been a component. But again, I, like so many people, didn’t exercise enough, had put on more weight than I care to admit.

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Laurie Shakur: But I also got a Yoga certification. So I went through and said, I love practicing it. But I really wanna understand the discipline behind it, the the science behind it. And so in full transparency, the

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Laurie Shakur: transcendental meditation and the Yoga practice has transformed my work practice, because again, I show up at least I endeavor to show up much more present and grounded, which enables me to

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Laurie Shakur: instill more confidence. There’s always something crazy going on in HR.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Right.

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Laurie Shakur: Found that through my personal practice I can go through those hills and valleys with a lot more of a level mindset.

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Laurie Shakur: Yeah. And so

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Laurie Shakur: I’m a lifelong learner.

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Laurie Shakur: I listen to a book or 2 a week. I love biographies. I love positive motivation, I read, thinking, grow rich every January. It’s crazy. And so for me, just being a learner and opening myself up to again new industries, new practices, and and always making connections. So

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Laurie Shakur: it’s the hardest thing for me to send someone a note and say, Hey, I saw this article that you just wrote. I’d love to learn more, or I just read your book, and I’d love to have a conversation

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Laurie Shakur: that is so scary. But I’ve made some of the best connections by stepping outside of that comfort zone and reaching out to people people love when you have a shared passion, and I like you. That’s why we connected. We love the idea of coaching. We love the idea of development mindset and leveling people up.

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Laurie Shakur: That’s how we met. And so I think

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Laurie Shakur: it doesn’t have to stop with our formal role. Well, I’m in Hr. And I can’t do this. And one of the unique, wonderful things about the company that I work for is we operate like that. And so I didn’t. I can’t take credit. I didn’t give birth to these folks. I joke and say, I only give credit to myself for my kids.

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Laurie Shakur: But there’s a culture here that permeates curiosity.

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Laurie Shakur: There’s let’s ask more questions. Let’s learn more. I mean, they’re they’re building groundbreaking new verticals

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Laurie Shakur: in session is just a brand new thing. So

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Laurie Shakur: by virtue of who we are, we’re always curious and asking ourselves, How can we do better?

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Laurie Shakur: But then there’s also this mindfulness about it. We’re not running recklessly, and I’m not inferring that other companies do. But

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Laurie Shakur: I’m sure they do. We’re not running recklessly. We’re being very intentional and mindful, and and I think that that’s a differentiator. I really do.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Not only as a differentiator, I mean it. It’s a it’s a great mindset to have within Hr. Because a lot of times it is not intentional and mindful, because everything is on fire. Right? Like, you know, we’re we’re dealing with with the issues inside.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: There’s so many issues on the outside that come in

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Kristy McCann Flynn: and how we’re able to navigate that between Covid, you know, political seasons what’s going on right now, and the numerous wars across this world.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: And so, you know, to be able to, you know, lead with those values is is always been a a balance for not only for me and my career, but where I always try to go back to an organization, especially when things do become untethered like what are our values? Here?

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Are we truly living them? If not, what are the different things and the competencies and the goals that we need to build in and or get work not just done, but done well

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Kristy McCann Flynn: right that there’s a big difference like anybody could do a goal. But it’s also about like doing work, like you know. Well.

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Laurie Shakur: Oh, I guess.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: That creates the wellness within us a lot of times, too. And so, Laurie, you know a as you reflect on your career. Talk about like, you know, something that you’ve done. That was a

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Kristy McCann Flynn: huge home run. Because I know you have probably many of those. And that really impacted the organization and why you did it.

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Laurie Shakur: Hmm! That’s a great one, let me think.

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Laurie Shakur: and most

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Laurie Shakur: given credit for

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Laurie Shakur: changing cultures and making

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Laurie Shakur: them feel more

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Laurie Shakur: engaged and belong.

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Laurie Shakur: So I

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Laurie Shakur: got a ping maybe 6 months after I last my left my last company prior to this Racketon amazing culture! Wonderful people! It was just time for me to leave, and I got the most amazing ping from someone that said.

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Laurie Shakur: even though you’re gone, some of your sentiments remain.

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Laurie Shakur: And so this wonderful person was kind enough. Some of the things that I say instead of Thank you. I say, I appreciate you.

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Laurie Shakur: Instead of saying, How can I help you?

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Laurie Shakur: It’s how can I support you?

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Laurie Shakur: And there’s so much a part of just how I talk. I can’t even remember all of them. But this wonderful kind person just sent me a ping with about 4 or 5 of my gloryisms, as she called them, and said, I want you to know that we still talk like this. This is now become just a part of how we do.

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Laurie Shakur: And so I think that that’s my biggest

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Laurie Shakur: contribution.

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Laurie Shakur: I believe so wholeheartedly, and the importance of creating safe spaces if only I had termed like copy written that term because everyone’s saying it, and I was saying it before. But you know, but I, because I’ve not always felt safe.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Right.

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Laurie Shakur: And so, since I know first hand what it feels like to be on the outside and not safe, I go out of my way to create safety. And it’s typically through my words and actions. So I think the best example would be. After I left, someone said, you know, we’re still talking like you. We’re still showing up like you, and

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Laurie Shakur: that that says a lot. I think I’m I’m humbled and grateful for that.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Oh, that’s amazing. Well, I mean now, now I know how we know each other. So I got a a similar one.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: I left an organization, and I don’t know randomly like, 3 months later I got this big package in the mail, and it was a

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Kristy McCann Flynn: ship steering wheel.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: What the hell is this like? I’m like, I don’t have a boat, not not a boater like whatever.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Then I ran the card attached, and you know, even though I left the organization, I was always steering the Chip

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Kristy McCann Flynn: and

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Kristy McCann Flynn: I, and and you know, theoretically, they were saying, still am, even though I’m not there, and it was similar to you. It was the right time to go, but

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Kristy McCann Flynn: I feel like the lessons that a lot of the Hr. Practitioners can definitely learn today. It’s not necessarily about your playbook.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: It’s about who you are

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Kristy McCann Flynn: and how you show up

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Kristy McCann Flynn: and how you enact plans that again mirror and embody not just the values of you, but most likely the values of your organization, and that within itself is some of the greatest playbooks. Because, you know, when I look back at that organization I left like, you know, I knew I did a lot of great things, but I also know that I failed in a lot of you know ways, too, and and definitely learn for the people that were around me.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: But I embraced that learning, and I took that failure and made it into a positive and and and that was be able to instill within the organization. And so I think that you know when when Hr, you’re at a point, it’s always not about theory and practice. It’s about identity.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: And it’s about who you want to be and what your CEO wants this organization to be, and and how you’re able to build on it, and the small sections to go very far, because that is essentially the the print that you will leave on organization, the fact that you have that Lori, I have that feeling to. It’s not. It made me to this day, even in my lowest moment. So I’ll look back at that card and realize that like, hey I showed up and was able to get there.

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Laurie Shakur: You asked about failures, and you know

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Laurie Shakur: some people don’t like talk about talking about failures, and they they spin it in some way. Well, you know I tend to work a little too hard. No, I think. And I I I wanna be vulnerable. With this. I think my biggest mistakes have been and not

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Laurie Shakur: seeing people.

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Laurie Shakur: So I have a bias, and my bias is has been not so much. Now I’m the only person that’s had this tragic, whatever that was a bias. And I’ve made missteps

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Laurie Shakur: when I didn’t see others and recognize, just because they may look or or show up in a way that I wanna have an assumption that they’ve not had a challenge, that those have been my biggest mistakes when I’ve made assumptions like every other human.

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Laurie Shakur: But not that they’ve had a hard time, but that they haven’t.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: Right right and.

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Laurie Shakur: And so in in full vulnerability, I now I I seek out just like my CEO did. Tell me your story.

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Laurie Shakur: I want to know everyone’s story first.

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Laurie Shakur: so that I don’t make those assumptions anymore.

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Kristy McCann Flynn: That’s amazing. And I I love it. And you know it’s I always lead with. Don’t assume, always ask. And I and I think that that is a great note to end on. Well, Laura, I could spend so much more time with you. A. And and I can’t wait to eventually meet you in person. I know we have a lot of conferences coming up, but thank you so much for attending this episode of Hr. Confessions again. I’m Christian Mccann, and we’ll see you next week. Thank you all.